In this episode of Energy Transition Talks, host Derek Marinos speaks with Peter Warren, Vice-President and Global Industry Lead for Energy & Utilities at CGI, and Torsten Bernström, Global Industry Lead for Defense, about why energy sovereignty is becoming a core pillar of national security.

They explore how energy independence, resilient supply chains and digital sovereignty are reshaping defense and energy strategies—and why readiness now depends on both electrons and data.

Energy as an economic and strategic safeguard

Energy no longer sits in the background of national strategy. It underpins a country’s ability to defend itself, trade globally and stay competitive.

Peter highlights how recent disruptions—such as attacks on critical infrastructure, volatility in tariffs and shifting trade relationships—have exposed vulnerabilities in traditional, globalized energy supply chains.

For countries seeking to diversify export markets or integrate with regions like Europe, factors such as the source, reliability and carbon intensity of energy now directly influence:

  • Market access and trade agreements
  • Competitiveness of goods and services
  • Long-term economic resilience

“We see this as an element of economic national security, not just physical defense.” – Peter Warren

In this context, energy independence and decarbonization become strategic safeguards, not just environmental goals.

Total defense: Energy at the core of societal resilience

Torsten introduces the Nordic concept of total defense, in which security is understood as an integrated system rather than only military capability. In that context, four pillars must continue to operate even under stress:

  • Military capabilities: tanks, planes, ships and command systems
  • Civilian defense and citizen protection
  • Industry and production capacity
  • Critical infrastructure, including payment systems, logistics and communications

At the center of this model is persistent, reliable energy supply. Without it:

  • Industrial production halts
  • Digital and financial systems go offline
  • Civil protection and defense assets are immobilized

Total defense thinking makes clear that energy is the enabler of all other capabilities, and therefore a strategic asset for both national and economic security.

Decentralized generation and SMRs: Bringing sovereignty closer to home

The conversation explores how decentralized energy models, including small modular reactors (SMRs) and renewables, can reduce geopolitical and supply-chain risk.

From CGI’s vantage point, a structural shift is underway: more energy will be generated and consumed closer to the point of use, with large-scale grids and fuel supply chains acting as balancing mechanisms rather than single sources of dependency.

Peter points to examples such as:

  • Countries that export gas but rely on electrification at home, aligning grid resilience with export revenue
  • Regions investing in local generation to support both security of supply and new trade opportunities

Local and distributed generation, when secured by strong cyber resilience, supports both energy sovereignty and operational flexibility, giving governments greater control over critical infrastructure in times of stress.

Shorter, smarter supply chains and critical materials

Derek, Peter and Torsten examine how Europe’s reliance on Russian gas and wider trade tensions have challenged a globalization model built primarily on cost and scale.

Today, resilient supply chains are seen as strategic assets. Governments and operators are:

  • Reassessing dependencies on specific countries for fuels, technologies and components
  • Shortening or regionalizing supply chains to reduce exposure to external coercion—economic, kinetic or cyber
  • Integrating sustainability and resilience as core design criteria for new investments

“Resilience is the new efficiency matrix. Being close to the source is what matters now.” –Tosten Bernström

This rethinking also applies to rare earths and critical minerals, which are essential for electrification, advanced defense systems and digital infrastructure. Access to these materials—through domestic reserves, allied partnerships and local refining—has become a key ingredient in both energy transition and defense readiness.

Bridging energy and defense: One ecosystem, shared risks

A central theme running through the episode is that energy and defense now form one interdependent ecosystem:

  • Defense operations need secure, reliable energy to move, sense and communicate
  • Energy systems require defense-grade cybersecurity, intelligence and resilience to withstand modern threats

“If you don’t have the energy, you can’t run the cyber protection. If you don’t have the cyber protection, then you could lose the energy.” – Peter Warren

This interdependence is driving new partnerships between:

  • Energy and utilities providers
  • Defense organizations and government agencies
  • Operators of critical infrastructure (grids, payments, communications, transport)

The goal is to design and operate resilient, cyber-physical energy systems that can sustain both civilian life and defense missions amid disruption.

Looking ahead: From physical energy sovereignty to digital sovereignty

The episode closes by looking ahead to digital sovereignty and the next wave of cyber risk driven by AI and quantum computing.

As critical systems become more digital, connected and autonomous, nations must:

  • Protect data sovereignty and the integrity of operational technology (OT) and IT environments
  • Prepare for future threats to encryption and identity from quantum-era computing
  • Ensure sufficient local computing power and energy to run advanced cybersecurity, analytics and AI at the edge

“What worked in an era focused on efficiency is no longer enough in an era defined by resilience, sovereignty and disruption.”—Torsten Bernström

Torsten stresses that national and sector goals must remain dynamic, evolving as technology, geopolitics and climate risks change.

This sets the stage for part two of the series, where Derek, Peter and Torsten will explore how cyber resilience, AI and data sovereignty are transforming both defense and energy, plus why readiness today depends as much on the integrity of our data as on the reliability of our energy.

Listen to other podcasts in this series to learn more about the energy transition

Read the transcript

1. Energy, data and sovereignty in a disrupted global landscape

Derek Marinos:
Security and sovereignty are being redefined through energy and data. A nation's strength now depends on its ability to generate, manage, and protect energy locally and to secure the digital systems behind it. Resilience has become the new measure of progress. Efficiency alone is no longer enough. What matters now is readiness — the capacity to adapt, sustain, and recover amid disruption.

As global systems evolve, energy and defense are converging, sharing supply chains, technologies, and digital infrastructure to safeguard the systems that keep societies running.

Welcome to Energy Transition Talks. I'm your host, Derek Marinos. In this first episode, we will explore how energy independence has become a pillar of national security, linking local generation, secure supply chains, and sovereignty in a changing geopolitical landscape. And we'll look at how defense priorities are reshaping energy strategy, making resilience the foundation of strategic autonomy.

2. Why energy independence is now central to national security

We have two distinguished CGI experts to help us unpack it all, Torsten Bernström and Peter Warren. Gentlemen, welcome, and kindly take a moment to introduce yourselves. Peter

Peter Warren:
Thank you very much, Derek. I appreciate that. So as mentioned, I'm Peter Warren. I've been with CGI for almost 15, 20 years now, and I'm the global industry lead for what we do. In the form of energy, that means in the oil industry, everything from wellheads right through to customer loyalty cards; in electricity, everything from generation to billing; the same for natural gas. We also do water and wastewater, so it's quite a mix of stuff. All those things are key to the infrastructure of our societies, and we'll talk about that more.

Torsten Bernström:
Thank you for having me. I'm Torsten Bernström, and I'm talking to you out of Stockholm, Sweden. I'm the global industry lead for defense at CGI, and I've been in the IT industry for over 25–30 years after my MBA from the Stockholm School of Economics. I'm also a reserve officer — Lieutenant Colonel in the Army Reserve. You were right, Derek, with your introduction. Defense, with all its aspects and especially with energy as an item in it, is of strategic interest.

Derek Marinos:
Wonderful. It's great to be with both of you, and I look forward to the conversation. And Peter, let's kick things off with a simple understanding here. I love clarity of purpose, and you're one of the folks I love to engage with when it comes to that. Why does energy independence matter for national defense?

Peter Warren:
That's a great question, Derek. We must look at recent history — what's been going on with infrastructure being attacked in the war in Ukraine, the social impacts of things. In our own Voice of the Client research that we do each year, even before the changes in the leadership of the United States, people were concerned about tariffs and what the impact was.

3. Energy as economic security and strategic advantage

Peter Warren:
Disruption means that there is a concern with nations and how they're going to move forward. As economies shift — and you look at the Canadian economy, where I happen to be — as we want to shift maybe from dealing with one primary consumer of our products to being a global player, we have to consider the impacts of how we produce energy and how those goods and services are going to be received around the world.

Certainly, as we want to become part of the global economy in Europe, we have to be compliant with their carbon rules. Therefore, the source of energy is important, the consistency of energy is important, and the reliability of energy. And we see this as an element of economic national security, not just physical defense.

Derek Marinos:
It very much is like a bloodline, so to speak, and vital as well.

4. Total defense: How military, civil society, industry and infrastructure interlock

Derek Marinos:
Torsten, you'd alluded to it just as we heard from you in your introduction. I'd love to get your perspective on this question as well.

Torsten Bernström:
We can start with how we usually define defense. I always underline that when we are talking about defense, it's not only the hard shell — the military capabilities with tanks, planes, and ships. It is also the total defense, which I usually draw as a picture: total defense is of course the military capabilities, but they are nothing without the civilian defense with everything that goes with that, and around citizen protection.

But also, the infrastructure and the industry. Industry must produce things even under harsh conditions. Civilian society with all the payment systems and so on needs to function. And of course, the infrastructure — and in the infrastructure, energy, supply, the persistent energy presence — is vital. Without that, nothing works. So to sum it up, total defense, which in the Scandinavian countries is a very given thing, consists of those four things together.

5. Decentralized energy, SMRs and local generation as tools of sovereignty

Derek Marinos:
That's interesting. If we could get into a specific area — perhaps, Peter, I'll direct this one to you. How do decentralized models like small modular reactors, these so-called SMRs, and renewables reduce geopolitical risk?

Peter Warren:
It's a great one. There's certainly a rise of interest in SMRs, but also in all different forms of local energy production. And we'll come back to the cyber protection piece Torsten talked about, which is a concern in all geographies.

The production of energy locally has been something we've been talking about at CGI for a long time. In fact, it has been our viewpoint that a lot of shifts will happen where energy is going to be made and consumed much closer to the point of consumption. Supply chains will still exist, they'll still move forward, but much more of a balancing function is going to happen because people cannot rely on a supply chain that is stretching out and constantly changing if they need that energy.

But conversely, there are new opportunities. I’m thinking about a recent conversation with South Africa: they're interested in gaining more reliable natural gas supplies, but they also have an interest in exporting their wine — which is a funny combination. These strange bedfellows of producing something, shipping something, and coordinating between haves and have-nots are becoming more common.

Looking at the Nordics — Norway doesn’t consume much natural gas, but it ships a lot of it, making the country very profitable. One of the reasons it's highly electric is that if it burns the gas locally, it can't sell it internationally. So, becoming more energy-stable makes Norway more profitable. These shifts will influence how countries interact economically and socially.

Derek Marinos:
Torsten?

Torsten Bernström:
We talk a lot about sovereignty. There is a strong trend that you need to control your supply chain. And as Peter said, supply chain is not only materials — it is all functions and capabilities within it.

First the world was hit by the pandemic, when we all had to start revising our supply chains. Did we have the material? Did we have the commodities? Did we have the knowledge close to us?

Someone defined sovereignty as the ability to power, govern, and defend without outside coercion. That’s a good definition. Outside coercion in this case can be kinetic — if someone wants to destroy parts of your chain — or cyber threats.

6. Rethinking global supply chains, efficiency and critical materials

Derek Marinos:
Yes, that's interesting. And I'm guided by that one word you used — “destroy” — because we're seeing destruction in Eastern Europe right now. I think there are lessons we’re learning from Europe’s dependence on Russian gas and global trade wars. What would they be? Torsten, I'll begin with you.

Torsten Bernström:
With trade wars and differences in alliances, shifting alliances that we see in the world, the same applies: all countries now need to re-evaluate their supply chain.

After the fall of the Berlin Wall and the end of the Cold War, everything was optimized for efficiency — economies of scale and globalization. If resilience came in, it was in the context of environmental sustainability. Now that sustainability is actually very important when it comes to resilience and supply chains.

So, all nations, all governments, probably need to look at this in a very intuitive and new way — shaping new supply chains where perhaps parts of the chain need to be revised or shortened.

Derek Marinos:
Peter, I'd love your perspective because globalization, as we knew it — and Torsten described its origin — seems to be shifting toward a more regional approach.

Peter Warren:
It has been. For some industries like electricity production, you generally make it close to where you consume it. We have cross-border trading, and that's important, especially with the rising demand for clean or low-carbon energy.

This isn’t just for ESG or accounting — it makes economic sense. A cleaner product is a better product.

Shipping is another example. The industry is moving toward hydrogen as a fuel source. Partly to meet local port requirements, but also because they’re facing 30-foot waves they didn’t used to hit. There's now a direct cause-and-effect understanding between emissions and environmental impact.

We’re also seeing Texas, a major oil state, installing more solar energy than ever. It’s not mandated — it makes economic sense and makes them more resilient. After the ice storm a few years ago that took down parts of their grid, reinforcing local grids is a smart move, even without a direct threat.

7. How defense is reshaping global supply chains

Derek Marinos:
Indeed. Both Peter and Torsten clearly articulate that supply chains are becoming the new battleground for sovereignty. How does defense reshape global supply chains for rare earths and metals? Torsten?

Torsten Bernström:
What was previously considered not economically sound or not aligned with climate goals is now being re-evaluated. Materials are in the ground, and environmental goals can be reshaped in a new light. Suddenly, a commodity on your own terrain or within a partner country becomes strategically interesting.

Resilience — being close to the source — is what matters. They say resilience is the new efficiency matrix. With that comes a reshaping of what nations can or cannot do to obtain scarce materials.

Peter Warren:
Very true. Even if a country isn’t the producer of rare earth minerals, refining has become politicized. China, for example, is the leading — and sometimes only — refining location for certain rare earths.

So, if a country needs those materials to make its grid more resilient or to manufacture critical components, it may need to extract and refine them locally. Globalization had many benefits, but now we’re seeing a pull toward bringing things closer to home.

8. Energy, defense and the need for new partnerships

Derek Marinos:
Let’s turn to policy and strategic alliances. What new partnerships are needed between the energy and defense sectors? Torsten?

Torsten Bernström:
As I said earlier, if we consider total defense with its components — industry, infrastructure, civilian defense, and military capabilities — the partnerships form naturally.

Peter Warren:
I totally agree. The military needs energy, but so do civilians, police forces, and the growing systems around AI and cyber detection. All of that requires more energy. And the relationship is reciprocal: if you don't have energy, you can't run the cyber protection; if you don't have the cyber protection, you could lose the energy. The connection between these sectors is very tight.

9. Digital sovereignty, AI and emerging security risks

Derek Marinos:
One final question: How can digital sovereignty and low-carbon goals coexist with security priorities, Peter?

Peter Warren:
Digital sovereignty has become a huge national concern as we look at threats through new tools. We haven’t talked about quantum computing, but the rise of quantum combined with AI will have a major impact on security.

We're having to consider concepts like quantum passwords, whereby observing the password you've automatically changed it — so it can’t be intercepted in the traditional way. Banking, military, and other sectors are concerned about this.

That computing power, on both the aggressor and defender sides, requires energy. So as we advance technologically, we’ll need more energy locally to power the systems that protect us in this rising cyber conflict.

Torsten Bernström:
I sensed in your question a potential conflict of goals. But goals are always set against what we know at the moment. That means goals will need to be redefined — just like the supply chain — over time.

Derek Marinos:
Thank you both. As we've heard, energy sovereignty is now a cornerstone of national security. But resilience isn't only about physical infrastructure; it's also digital. In part two, we will explore how cyber resilience, AI, and data sovereignty are transforming both defense and energy — because readiness today depends as much on the integrity of our data as on the reliability of our energy.

Until then, I'm Derek Marinos. Thank you for listening.