What does it take to lead transformation that brings people together and ensures every voice is heard, so progress is not just fast, but fair? How does inclusive leadership create the conditions for digital change that really sticks?
Ahead of our presence at Leeds Digital Festival, this episode of Talking Transformation brings Adrian Chiffi together with CGI's Leeds business unit leader, Christina Geary, and CIO at Skipton Group, Jenny Wood, to explore what inclusive leadership means and why it matters in business transformation.
Together, they discuss:
- How inclusive leadership makes colleagues and customers feel valued, respected, and empowered to contribute.
- How diverse teams can drive better innovation, faster transformation, and improved customer service.
- Why leaders need to be adaptive and provide safe environments for colleagues and customers to share honest feedback.
- Why inclusivity should be embedded into the way leaders think and act, not applied as an afterthought.
- Transcript
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Ade Chiffi: What does it take to lead transformation in a way that brings people together and ensures every voice is heard? How does inclusive leadership create the conditions for digital change that really sticks? In a world where technology is reshaping how we live and work, how do leaders ensure that progress is not just fast but fair?
Hello, everybody. I'm Ade Chiffi, and I lead Global Technology Operations for CGI in the UK.
In today's episode of Talking Transformation, we're exploring a theme that sits at the heart of successful digital change leadership, and more specifically, what it means to lead inclusively. Technology change is never just about systems, as we've talked a lot of times on the podcast here. It's about people, and without leadership that listens, empowers, and brings people with it, even the best digital initiatives can stall.
I'm really pleased to be able to say we're recording this episode just ahead of the Leeds Digital Festival 2025, is running from the 22nd of September to the 3rd of October. Really, an event that celebrates the strength of the area's tech community and the power of collaboration in really driving innovation. This year, CGI and Skipton are both hosting sessions at the festival, and it's the perfect backdrop for today's conversation and today's guests as well. Delighted to be joined by two brilliant leaders from both organisations: Christina Geary, who leads our Leeds business unit at CGI, and Jenny Wood, group CIO of Skipton Group. Hello, both. Great to have you on the podcast today.
Christina Geary: Hi, Ade. Good to see you.
Jenny Wood: Wonderful to be here.
Ade: Great stuff, great stuff. Delighted you're both joining us, and we'll have some fun today. Let me get straight into it. Christina, if it's okay, I'm going to come to you first. CGI, we've been a strong supporter of the Leeds Digital Festival now for many years. From your perspective,-
Christina: Yes, that's right.
Ade: -why does it matter really being part of this community?
Christina: I think Leeds is quite a unique community in terms of the technology scene, where we're quite collaborative and quite supportive group of individuals. Even businesses that are technically competitors work together, come together, particularly for the LDF weeks, sharing ideas, and just with that common purpose of pushing the Leeds digital scene forwards and making sure it's the best that it can be. It's a pretty unique scene, and it's something that's really good to be part of. Particularly for this year, it's probably more important than it usually is for CGI, because we've been through that transformation from BJSS to CGI, so really keen to show up and bring the best of both those organisations and show that we're still here in the region as well, ready to support.
Ade: Totally. For me, as you know, Christina, I'm newer to this myself, but the buzz already that I'm hearing, and we're going to be coming up to get involved as well, from the part of the business where I operate, really, really exciting. Jenny, Skipton, a premier sponsor this year. What's the motivation for taking such a prominent role, and what does being part of the Leeds tech community mean to you then?
Jenny: Skipton group's got five different companies, just to give you a context. We've got Connells, Skipton International, Skipton Business Finance, Jade, our software company, and the building society. The building society was established in 1853 in Skipton, in North Yorkshire. For us, it's been an area that we've been a part of, serving members and the community that we're located within for a very, very long time. When you look at tech, you look at data; it's a part of everyday life. It's something that's so important for the skills of the future.
It's important to transform in the experiences that people have. As we've said in the topic here, it's so important that we get it right for inclusivity. What I love about Leeds Digital Fest is it's a chance for everyone to come together, share what they know, uplift each other's knowledge, get to know new people, and really learn from each other about how we can make this different and how we can leverage tech and data to make different experiences for people across the country.
Ade: I couldn't agree more there. What you've talked about there, Jenny, is that history as well, that you're, really, for some time, being such a part of the area, and that chance to really work with other like-minded organisations as well, and give back on what's next, as well as that's super exciting. I'm looking forward to joining you both up there in a couple of weeks’ time. You mentioned the words inclusivity there, Jenny, and very much a theme of today's conversation. We hear the phrase a lot, but what does it look like for you in practice?
Jenny: Inclusive leadership is a way where colleagues and customers feel valued, respected, empowered to contribute and live to their full potential. It's about creating things that work for everyone, that uplift everyone, that make it fun to be a part of, but actually support the needs of everyone who gets involved or needs to use them, or is a part of the team that's creating them. Really, it's about getting the best out of everything, to get the best results, and doing it in a way that the people feel able to contribute their best to that.
Ade: Being part of it, having that skin in the game, then, isn't it, and listened to as well. No, totally. Just a quick follow-up for you then on that, Jenny. A lot of our day-to-day across both organisations involves that digital transformation. Why does inclusive leadership matter so much in that context, would you say?
Jenny: Because we're all different, and the experiences, the context, the way we see the world, it's all different. Diverse teams drive better outcomes. When people feel included, they're more likely to contribute ideas to challenge the status quo, to help transformation move faster, to suggest different problems to solve.
When we look at our customers, our colleagues, and we look at the area, particularly across the north of England, but also the broader UK that Skipton serves, people have different experiences and needs, and inclusive leadership is what helps our colleagues understand better the things that they need. Also, it helps us understand better what our customers need, and that then helps us be more innovative, move faster, more adaptive, retain people within the organisation, and ultimately deliver stronger business results and create an environment where our people can have fun doing that.
Ade: I love that. You're looking from multiple lenses there, Jenny. All of that, everybody benefits and has the opportunity to move forward together. I couldn't agree more. If I could, then, Christina, bring you in on that point, inclusive leadership for you, what's your take there?
Christina: I think Jenny summarised it really nicely, actually. I think, if you don't operate in that way, then you're really shutting off a massive stream of talent ideas, ending up in a better place than you would be otherwise. It's just about making sure we're not leading from an ivory tower where you're quite removed from what's going on day to day, and people not feeling like they can come and contribute their ideas and things that ultimately will make whatever it is you're doing, whether it's a transformation or just running a business, make it better by having people feel like they can come and contribute.
Ade: And part of it. Absolutely. You mentioned the word transformation there. Christina, one thing I've very quickly picked up since we've been working together, some significant large transformations that you and the team have been working on. Can you share an example where inclusive leadership's really made a difference to a particular transformation you've been on?
Christina: Yes. Actually, this one's going back a few years now, and it's a bit of an interesting one, where we were actually implementing an ERP system into a manufacturing plant, but the project was being entirely led and sponsored by Finance. Part of the ERP, obviously, is the finance system, so that makes sense to a point. The point at which we got involved, the system was great as far as finance were concerned. Everyone's really, really happy, but couldn't get anybody else across the business to use the system. That was causing quite a lot of frustration.
It was that classic going into a transformation project with quite a narrow lens, and not looking at the end users who had a huge amount to contribute, and actually, in this example, it was a range of people from the Finance guys, the Legal team, the Ops teams, but actually the people on the factory floor as well had to be involved to give their views, and they really hadn't been included.
They'd been left to their own devices, pretty much. So, inevitably when they get presented with a system to say, "Right, this is what you do," they weren't bought into it, but more importantly than that, it didn't work for them either. It was just about backtracking a little bit from that and taking it and having to go blank page a little bit to start saying, "Right, okay, what does work for you? What do you need?" The results of doing that, overall, it was a better system for everybody, not just the guys on the floor.
Ade: Exactly. Oh, I love that. I couldn't agree more, and I'm sure amongst the three of us, there'll be multiple examples like this that we can call out that really do resonate, similar to what you've said there now. Thank you, Christina. Jenny, thinking about Skipton's digital journey then, and some of the lessons that you will have learned some and put into practice at your time there, what advice would you give to other leaders who really want to make change more accessible, equitable, and, I would say, sustainable as well? What's your take there?
Jenny: I think Christina summarised it in her example, which is transformation never stops. We've got a rate of change in the world around us that keeps increasing. The amount of information we have to process is increasing on a continual basis. Often, the work and all the work you've got to do, whether it be transformational work, whether it be operational work, it's never going to slow down. It is relentless as well. The advice is to actually spend time listening. Spend time listening to customers and colleagues about what really matters. What is the real problem to solve?
I've been involved in transformations where you get to the end and someone goes, "Well, it didn't solve the problem. All I wanted was something simple. Yes, I've got some brand new tech, but it doesn't really solve the problem that the customer or the colleague had." For customers, do a bit of listening. For colleagues, we've just rolled out a brand new way of surveying our colleagues, which allows us to interact on their anonymous comments, which gives them the psychological safety to talk to us about how they're feeling.
It's really opened up a whole range of new understanding about what's working in some of the change we are doing for our colleagues as well, and how prepared they're feeling for some of the transformational change that's coming through. Really, it's just about listing and understanding and being empathetic and being
Ade: Totally. One of the sayings that we have is none of us own the book on being right. There's going to be multiple different views, multiple different perspectives, and our jobs as leaders is to find the different points of view from as wide a group as we possibly can to then be decisive and make the right call that is benefiting all. Listening right at the centre of that. I couldn't agree more, Jenny. Anything final to add on, on that element there, Christina?
Christina: I think it's just about trying to have that mindset from the start of any program, of any big or small thing you're trying to achieve, be open from that start. Actually, those words, psychological safety, Jenny, was something that I'd scribbled down when I was thinking this morning about what we were going to be talking about today. If you can create an environment with that, then I think you're 90% of the way there, to be honest.
Ade: Totally. Listen, both, thank you so much. I'm going to look to wrap up now on what's been coming through. Similar to yourself, Christina, I've been making a couple of scribbles as we've been going through here to sum up. Please let me know if you agree or if you're of a different point of view, or anything to add. Please throw that through now as we go. What I've heard, though, inclusive leadership is not a nice-to-have. It's that difference between change that really sticks or major change that stalls.
It means making space for diverse voices I've heard, and measuring success, not just by speed, but by fairness and adoption, and it reminds us that digital transformation, at its heart, what I've heard consistently through the call here, and dare I say it, on a lot of the podcasts we've talked about, it comes back to people. Jenny, you really summed it up for me there, around listening as well, and making sure we're getting as a diverse group of points of view as possible.
Ultimately, this is what transformation comes down to: culture and change, and leadership that makes all of those elements work together. Jenny, Christina, any final reflections on what I shared there before we close out, or any final thoughts?
Jenny: I think my build on what you've said, because listening is so fundamental, is that inclusive leadership is the foundation for great business results, excellent customer service, retaining fabulous talent, and actually, in a more complex world, innovation and enabling the business to transform. It's something that has to be built into what you do. You can't overlay it; it's got to be something that's felt at the heart of the way that your people lead and think through the organisation, because that then creates the safety for teams to challenge and adapt in what they're doing.
Ade: Exactly. Love that, Jenny. Thank you. Listen, thank you both. I've really enjoyed this. Some real insights and experience you've shared there, and we're bringing perspectives from both CGI and Skipton, so that's fantastic. Jenny, thank you very much. Christina, thank you very much. Really appreciate that.
Jenny: Thank you, Ade.
Christina: Thanks, Ade.
Ade: Great stuff. If you're listening and want to learn more, you can join in the conversation with us on LinkedIn or visit our website to explore how we're really helping clients build an inclusive digital transformation. As always, you can find this and other Talking Transformation episodes wherever you get your podcast. Of course, don't miss this year's Leeds Digital Festival running from the 22nd of September to the 3rd of October. Thanks again for tuning in. Have a great rest of the day.
[END OF AUDIO]
Listen now for insights into how other leaders are embedding inclusivity for stronger results, talent retention, and creating environments where people can thrive.
And join us at Leeds Digital Festival on 23 September for a celebratory evening of diversity and inclusion in our organisations and communities
Event: From bystander to upstander, why does DE&I matter – really?
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